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hey adam, ur doin’ it wrong

March 30, 2009

So, recently, as mentioned by Shadow WAR, Adam Gershowitz took a page from my playbook in an attempt to show how they’d be ‘fixing’ AOE. Way to go, except uh… well, if that’s what you’re planning to do… ur doin’ it wrong. If you don’t want to sift through his post, at least look at his pictures, because man… dots are my gimmick!

Here’s the important bit: “In 1.2.1 we will be adjusting GTAoE spells so that the damage will not stack with somebody being effected by the same spell.

That’s great. For readers, please go check out this poll at WHA as well. It’s not all about how I feel, let people know how you feel too. That’s how things get changed. My opinion? AOE needs an overhaul. Isn’t that extreme though!? No, it really isn’t I’m not asking for new AOE abilities to replace old ones, new animation, etc. Who cares. If you have to change the damage of 90% of the AOE abilities in game to maintain balance and adjust mechanical issues (LOS being the main one)… is changing ground-target AOE to not stack with themselves enough? That’s a joke. Not a funny one either, a sad one. It’s like a joke about stealing a disabled kids wheel chair.

Now here are a few things to keep in mind. Napalm and Rain of Fire are not the same spell. Oil is also not the same spell. I can’t believe I just explained that… Anyway. Rain of Fire from a decent BW hits for 600-1500. Napalm from a decent Engineer hits for anywhere from 400-1400. Then of course Oil’s well known high damage. Just the BW and Engineer will be dealing 1000-2900 damage to anyone near the door every 2 seconds. So, keep that in mind when viewing the following:

how-it-really-looksThis is what four Bright Wizards and an Engineer produce when defending a castle. Max ranged RDPS must stand in an AOE that deals up to 750 DPS. Any melee are forced to deal with up to 1450 DPS as well as large bursts from Oil. Meanwhile no defenders can be attacked. So, thanks Adam. We’re glad that you’re ‘fixing’ AOE.

Here’s another experiment. Not many know, but I’ll let it out there. My primary alt when Omelettez isn’t around is a Bright Wizard. I just solo and PUG my way into crappy greens. Solo easy PQs as long as the champions don’t reset on a short leash. Etc. Want to know how I kill stuff solo? Pull with Boiling Blood, then use Annihilate. That’s right, the PBAOE that hurts you. Why? It does 230 DPS non-crit. Fireball at my level? 220. Less against many mobs because I can’t debuff Elemental. Of course, that’s if I don’t get interrupted. In which case it could take as many as 6 seconds to cast a fireball. Now, I’d be stupid to stand there trying to get one off, but that’s the truth. DoT stuff up and kite? I could, but the damage is low.

Why bother, I can faceroll while chain-killing mobs so fast that I have to wait for Boiling Blood to come back up. With Combustion up Annihilate at this level is dealing up to 2000 damage over 3 seconds. It’s also four chances to tack on Flame of Rhuine. Why would I bother with single target DPS? Hero mobs in PQs? No thanks, I just keep up Boiling Blood, Flame Breath and Annihilate while meleeing. Never run out of AP while rolling on by at over 400 DPS. Oh, it’s an AOE too… if I feel like pulling more than one thing… it kills both in 3 seconds, instead of just one.

*special addition due to boredom — how to safely grind with Annihilate:


Why would I bother with the other trees at this level? Ooo, I can get Withering Heat soon, that’ll change my mind… oh wait that’s single target and I already kill everything in a single cast of Annihilate while being able to pull more targets. Convenient too, Flame Breath hits harder than Ignite and only costs 5 more AP. Oh, unless I do chain pull, then it costs at least 30 less. Hi, I’m a Bright Wizard and my AOE is better single target than my single target abilities. Meet my friend Engineer, Magus, Sorceress, Swordmaster, Black Orc, Ironbreaker, Blackguard, Chosen, Marauder, Choppa, Slayer and White Lion.

Oh wait, there’s more. Remember those great AOE heals that this game’s healers lean on as a crutch to make up for poor generic design that healers have? Let’s see big heals take 45 AP, heal for 1125. AOE heals take 65 AP and heal for 765. Since both scale at the exact same rate (willpower/5*3) how much does it take to make the AOE heal not only heal for more, but also be more AP efficient? Hmm. Well, all it takes two targets to heal for more. One needs to be down by 765 (or more), the other by 360 (or more). Great, you’re providing the same level of healing. How about AP efficiency? Big heals heal for 25 per AP. AOE heals heal for 11.769 per AP. Ooo, AOE heals are very inefficient! How much does it take for them to be more efficient? You need to heal 1625, or 2.12 people.

Okay, okay, that isn’t fair. After all, who has 0 Willpower? What’s a good number, 700? Okay. Big heals now heal for 1565 and AOE heals now heal for 1185. AOE heals now heal for 18.23 per AP and big heals for an amazing 34.77_ per AP. Hm, so how much does it take to make the AOE heal more efficient now? 2260.55_ healing. That’s 1.9 people. *gasp* That means that since the abilities scale the same, AOE heals actually catch up in efficiency.ย  Thanks Mythic, I love being a 1 button spam machine! It’s amazing! It’s like I don’t have to work at all.

Ooo, but you can’t cast those outside your party! So what? All that means is you keep people with low health outside your party targeted, then you don’t even have to switch targets to heal your entire party. While being more efficient and doing a legitimate better job than single target healing.

What about DoK and WP though, they can’t do that! Yup, they are not flexible and can’t be relied on for healing outside their party except through weak HoTs and a giant 30 foot AOE channeled heal which outperforms standard AOE heals and has no ‘in group’ limit. Oh wait. Well, what about their lack of a single target heal to quickly heal from range! Let me ask you something… would you trade 25% of your big heals healing in exchange for reducing its ability to be interrupted by 60%, while increasing its delivery time by 250%? That’s what DoK and WP get. Single target they heal for ~25% less, but they deliver it much faster and are much, much less likely to be interrupted.

O Balance, Balance, wherefore art thou Balance?
Deny thy status and refuse to AOE;
Or if thou wilt not, be but in another game
And I’ll no longer be at WAR.
‘Tis but thy broken nature that is my enemy:
Thou art thyself, though not at Mythic.
What’s Mythic? It is not hand nor foot,
Nor well tested, nor any other part
Belonging to a design team. O be some other game!
What’s in a game? That which we call WAR
By any other word would play as sweet;
So Balance would, were he not Balance call’d,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. WAR, doff thy AOE,
and for thy balance, which is no part of thee,
Test thyself.

Uh, I got a little distracted there. Oh yeah. Fix AOE. So far? Gotta say it. Ur doin’ it wrong.


15 Comments leave one →
  1. March 30, 2009 2:41 pm

    Jebus – Love ya man but damn those numbers … I’ll just look at that pretty butterfly … noh wate – is that a butterfly? >.<

  2. March 30, 2009 4:24 pm

    Is it wrong that I was aroused when looking at your diagram? Something about pink circles just gets me going.

    Back on topic though. Perhaps keep upgrades will make it all better? No no. I don’t think so. Perhaps if Mythic released another AoE class to balance things out? Uh uh. Nope. Perhaps the devs should spend a little bit more time reading your blog? Hey, thats not a bad idea.

    Great post.

  3. Omelettez permalink*
    March 30, 2009 4:28 pm


  4. pancakez permalink*
    March 30, 2009 4:29 pm

    …there’s something wrong with you two.

    ps: Next time I make a gif like this I’m going to make the giant pink orbs jiggle.

  5. Glen permalink
    March 30, 2009 4:37 pm

    Relax guy. Your going to give yourself skin failure!

    I like the diagram.

  6. pancakez permalink*
    March 30, 2009 5:27 pm

    I’ve added how to safely self-AOE with Annihilate while grinding. You can do this with up to 4 targets, but it’s a lot safer to just pull two. For bigger pulls use Fiery Blast, then Detonate after Flame Breath while strafing. After 25 if Annihilate gets knocked back just cast Rain of Fire on yourself. Hur hur BW is hard. ๐Ÿ˜›

  7. Slice permalink
    March 30, 2009 5:42 pm

    Awesome site, great posts! Keep up the great work.

  8. shadowwar permalink
    March 30, 2009 9:05 pm

    I’m with Nosmo, my mind instantly went dirty when I saw the pink circle’s overlaps.

  9. March 31, 2009 3:00 am

    Great analysis and some almost Shakespear thrown in for good measure ๐Ÿ™‚ you really deserve that Sticky Keyboard award.

  10. Khaindar permalink
    March 31, 2009 7:20 am

    Damn i had a great laught reading your Shakespear expression!
    Seems like i have to dust of my BW. Shame hes only 15 thought. Argh to many alts!

  11. chris permalink
    March 31, 2009 10:06 am

    I have to agree with your assesment of group healing my rune priest can spam that group heal all day and no one dies ! Lord help Destro if we have an RP in each group.

  12. Brendan permalink
    March 31, 2009 11:37 am

    If your BW is on Gorfang – I hate you.

    Signed, Phleus the zealot.

  13. March 31, 2009 5:21 pm

    I see where you are coming from with the analysis of the 4 BW/Engi keep defense. I would like to ask how you would specifically address the issue. I’m having trouble reading into

    “No, it really isnโ€™t Iโ€™m not asking for new AOE abilities to replace old ones, new animation, etc. Who cares. If you have to change the damage of 90% of the AOE abilities in game to maintain balance and adjust mechanical issues (LOS being the main one)โ€ฆ is changing ground-target AOE to not stack with themselves enough? ”

    From my view, I would guess that you support a flat-out damage nerf to AoE to maintain balance? Am I getting that right? I’m not criticizing, I’m just having trouble understanding your suggestion.

  14. pancakez permalink*
    April 2, 2009 3:37 pm

    Finally replying after shenanigans. xD

    @Brendan: My BW actually -is- on Gorfang. I love you too. ๐Ÿ˜›

    @Hiryu: I don’t support a flat damage reduction to AOE. Nor do I believe that it’s only damage that needs adjusting. The reason I called it an overhaul is because there are many abilities to be balanced in different ways, as well as mechanical issues dealing with LoS. When I say LoS that goes twofold: Currently many AoE attacks penetrate walls, but GTAoE can also be cast from behind barricades with clever camera use. I’ll be discussing this a great deal more in the near future.

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